If you can get a brand new pair of say, Crosshairs on Ebay for $170, or a full retail pair from anyone else for $250, why would you buy the full retail pair? I don't care who you are, if you can save $50, $70, $100, etc., why wouldn't you? I would probably have one pair of Minutes if I had to pay full retail for everything...

First let me say this is not an attack it’s a rant and my view might be a little different than most because I have no O-Store, No SGH and the cpl OPD's here suck ass, it’s so bad I have considered opening my own store.

eBay is not a better alternative for most people for some it's the only way they can get stuff because they either have no retail store or the store doesn’t carry hardly anything. All these dealers selling things on eBay can't be getting stock on these brand new items from stores going out of business, There is too much product and too many people selling it.

My OPD loses my business because his selection sucks (How can I buy stuff from him he doesnt carry?) and if I ask him to order something it takes 2 month's to get it. I have no O-Store, no SGH anymore, nothing. I order all my new stuff from oakley.com because that’s the only place I can get it!

If eBay dealers are acquiring things the "under the table way" it's Oakley fault because Oakley is the supplier.

Right on Jason, could not have said it better.

Ebay is a collection of stores( sort of). I would love to have a 0-store around or a decent OPD, but I don't. I go to ebay because of the vast selection. To the OPD that carry a large selection, thank you. Please encourage others to do the same.

In the end there is always gonna be a black market for goods and Oakley goods are no exception.

I did not mean to take this tread so off topic, and I am not saying eBay is the . Its a great place for discontinued Items or very hard to find Items. Or in your case IF you have no other option. I can get carried away on this topic very easily, I am a BIG supporter of doing as much business as possible in your local environment there for improving you local economy. (that incules corporate owend stores as they employe local people in the store)

What I was commenting on was your statement that buying on eBay dose not hurt Oakley, but the truth is it doses, not only Oakley but more so local business trying to make a living. Ask any shopkeeper (or shopkeepers employee) that spends 30 + minutes with a customer finding the perfect product they want only to have them tell you at the end of it all, "I just wanted to see how it fit, I am buying them on eBay." Happens all the time. . It gets bought on eBay and the shop keeper (or employee) wasted time (remember time IS money, especially if your paying the employee hourly) helping make a sale for some guy on the internet. Shopkeeper dose not sell the product there for dose not re-order the product, there for Oakley looses a sale. If any of you have never worked retail for more than a summer job I don't expert you to get it,and I am not claming any of you do what I stated in the example (please God I hope you don’t! And if you do dont tell me!) Just using it as an example of how eBay dose hurt Oakley.

I order all my new stuff from oakley.com because that’s the only place I can get it!

That dose help Oakley, and is a great alternative if you cant find something locally.

Ok somebody lock this thread before I really get on my sop box. =)

If you can get the same item in same condition cheaper on ebay than in retail I would go for ebay all the time. On the other hand it is personal opinion as I know for fact others will always due retail because of the 'warranty' factor and 1 to 1 enquiries with staff if something is wrong.

Ebay is always cheaper than in retail stores however there are the odd occasions when this is not the case but an experience person looking for a specific item should have all the price range sussed.

Yeah we are kinda off topic but this is a good debate :)

Of course it helps Oakley me buying on Oakley.com because they make retail profits on their goods instead of wholesale, If Oakley is so concerned with OPD's and retail stores they should stop selling product on Oakley.com.

I worked retail and managed a SGH store for 2 years so I understand your point totaly. My point is when people have better access to the good's they want they buy more and eBay does that for most people.

Small Dealer's if they want to survive aganist online dealers and eBay they have to do someting special for their customers since they can't compete with compete inventory. The OPD I used to buy from puts off ordering my stuff for weeks so he can make a large order and save on shipping. When I want to buy somthing I dont want to wait 2 weeks I want it now and if hes not willing to get it for me now then I will buy from someone who will. The dealers are killing themselves not us killing them.

The more product sold the better for Oakley plain and simple. The more product sold on eBay and online is not good for OPD and Retail stores.

This is a debate I've had with myself quite a few times. While I would prefer to buy from local dealers and/or Oakley (direct sales, O-Store, Vault, etc.), the issues of price and availability always end up making the final decision. I can honestly say that I would not be able to afford the majority of my collection without eBay.

I'm in the same boat as Jason regarding lack of well-stocked and knowledgeable OPD's in the area.

Also, eBay is convenient. Just sit back and wait for something good to pop up. No need to find time and energy to drive around looking for stuff.

If I do buy retail, I certainly prefer to go to smaller, independent stores rather than SGH (if Phil lived closer I would reconsider). Some members here seem to have a good rapport with their local OPD(s). I have not yet found a dealer that consistently has enough fresh stock to keep me coming back.

I'm still puzzled by the lack of an O-Store or Vault in the Michigan/Ohio area. I know it isn't a high-fashion, super trendy part of the country, but there is obviously decent demand for the product and very little supply. The closest O-Store is in Chicago, which is a 5+ hour drive from me. With gas at close to $3 a gallon, I can't justify making that trip just to spend even more money when I could probably find what I want on eBay.

It's a tough situation for the average Oakley fan with an average salary.

All good points. There's also the perennial complaint from us Canadian guys about the exchange pricing (yeah, I know other places have it worse). In Oakley's favour, I think they are getting better at setting reasonable price points; Five 3.0 is only $100 for example, and some of the watches recently underwent a huge price drop. With the rising dollar though, eBay is a really huge temptation for certain items where CAD retail and eBay pricing are so far apart (Romeo 2, some polarized items).

As for "thanks for the customer service, now I'll buy them on eBay" that's just rude. For example, if I see a new pair I might like I might try them on without being sure when or where I would get it, but at least would be polite and would thank the salesperson. I would also keep them in mind if I did decide to buy it. There's no need to be 'that guy' when you walk into your regular OPD.

The CDN price for Juliets dropped $50 too.

Back to Time Tank, Check out this slick feature on Oakley.com

http://oakley.com/timetank/

Some of you mention you like eBay because you like the lower price. This is another debate entirely in the way it affects Oakley. If price is the concern dose that mean you don’t think Oakley products are worth the retail price? If you don’t think its worth the retail price why do you like it so much? (I understand it is different for some of you not in the USA because of all the import fees and such making the product price sky rocket)

So buying on eBay because the price is lower de-values the brand in much the same way as having a sale on it doses (which is why Oakley sunglasses unless discontinued don’t go on sale). This cause a loss of $ to Oakley, in that if shops feel that they are loosing sale because the price it too high ,causing people to by via eBay, they will demand lower wholesale prices so they can lower retail prices. This unfortunately is a viscous cycle once it starts, then consumers think thinks like I will just wait for a sale, or I will wait till they lower prices again, or they must not have been worth what they were asking in the first place, or I will just by them on eBay. Then people get used to the new price and the cycle starts all over again. Next thing you know Oakley just ends up being another RB, because they have to keep cost so low to make money they cant spend the $ on R&D any more. This is something that happens over time, slowly and if you aren’t looking for it you don’t see it.

I think RB is a great example of this, once a great brand when made by B&L with fans just a rabid as any Oakley collector (I know because A. I used to be one, and B. I used to deal with them all the time). Over time the average customers started wanting them cheaper they were buying them second hand, retailers started running sales, slowly consumers started to feel like they were not worth full price they would wait for a sale. B&L, much like Oakley, did not want to make an inferior product but was no longer making money so they sell off the brand. Its picked up by LUX. who ,to keep price low, starts finding cheaper ways to make the shades including basing styles off of another style or another one of their brands and just changing the logo. And now we have the RB of today, a total peace of crap, with no major loyal following, a brand that is just getting by on its name, a brand that is not leading the market the way it once did.

Is that what we want the story of Oakley to be, or do we want new and innovative market leading styles? I think most of us would say hell no we don’t want that to happen, we want to lead the market.

Ok, sorry I did it again I can really get going on this stuff. (Can you tell I am just a little passionate about the Oakley brand and company?) Sorry for the rambling.

That's wild OB.

Did anybody notice the ship date has been pushed back to July 1?

that featurette was bad ass. I am starting to think I want a Time Tank.

Ob - that Time Tank site is cool. Thanks for the link.

Defender - I like Oakley because of the style, technology, and the engineering that goes into the product, not because it's expensive. Is the stuff overpriced? Yeah, of course it is. If I had to pay full retail for everything, I probably wouldn't bother.

I'm loving that time tank site, cheers ob. Did anyone else notice that Oakley have gone back to the 'flush' fitting style class ala the first gen timebomb? Slightly different mechanism obviously but the style is there. Very cool.

I am not saying like it because it is expensive. Oakley should be liked for all the reasons you stated, but its those things that make Oakley expensive.

I am saying that if people keep buying from places like eBay, it drives donwn the market value of Oakley, Oakley then has to lower retail prices to compete, Oakley looses money, if they loose money they have to cut back on R&D (just one prototype cost in the thousands, and they often go through up to 10 prototypes per style to get it correct so I disagree that its is over priced) and if they cut back on R&D the things we like about Oakley , style, technology, and the engineering start to go away to cut cost. That’s all I am saying, take it or leave it.

Ok I can’t take this thread off topic any more, Mods I am sorry I am done.

Defender I see your point and it is a good one that makes a lot of sense. I just think some Oakley fans want as much product as they can afford and unfortunately ebay is a good way to get more for their money. But supporting Oakley so they can continue to make the things that we love is important no doubt about that.

That Time Tank feature is pretty cool. I'm wondering what the packaging for the Time Tank will look like. What kind of box will it come and in and so forth?

Thats a good point Dan about the timetank packaging? I wonder if they will go with the Metal vault style as they did with the Timebomb?????? or go the cheaper way of the simple black flip box.

Maybe a nice lether one would be really cool, give it some extra class!

I just think some Oakley fans want as much product as they can afford and unfortunately ebay is a good way to get more for their money

how about warranty ?
And do you really think a ischiro juliet costs 1500 at an OPD ???

I've actually bought most of my collection (display stuff aside), aprox. 98% from an OPD or a store that sells Oakley. The hard to find items and retro items are what I have gotten else where. So warranty is important to me and I try to support the places that sell Oakley as much as I can.

I'm hoping for a metal case/box for the Time Tank but I guess only time will tell. Unless one of the Reviews insiders may have some info. to shed a little on the subject.

joke: i'm seriously thinking that maybe oakley decide not to cut down budgets on R&D but gutted the QC dept instead?

seriously now, this is from a consumer POV: buying a USD300 top of the line sunglass from a brand to find out it came with a defect such as lenses that rattles in the frame housing IS NOT funny at all. luckily i'm experienced with juliets and know how to fix it myself. BUT how do you think the impact would be on the company's brand image if say, the buyer's a beginner who's just started to collect oakleys? sure, warranty covers it. but i know most of ppl who bought mobile phones that had defects and sweared not to buy that brand again even when they have the company covered the product by warranty.

Oakley should really focus on sunglasses instead of making watches or any other things, and i disagree with defender that oakleys aren't overpriced. their apparels are way over priced, i know for a fact that some of the t-shirts are manufactured here in my country, so a markup as high as 1000% is possible. that alone reflects the policy of the company as a whole. i'm not complaining about this, in fact it's all good, because this way, Oakley things = premium products = owner prouder wearing it! all other premium brands have similar pricing policy anyways, that's why ppl buy them, for the luxury.

anyhow, it's really getting out of topic. sorry for that. the latest timetank's design is cool, but wouldn't the resources(read:money) used to design and manufacture the timetank be more useful if let's say oakley had decided to put it to sunglasses R&D? to tell you the truth, as nice and as much as i want the timetank? i'm sceptical it would sell well on the market, not only timetank but other types of watches too. ppl know oakleys for their sunglasses(and lately, apparels and bags), not their watches.

hi end watches = swiss made
middle to low end watches = japan made
oakley = head to head with japanese casio, seiko, some of swiss brands too. all of them who specialize in timekeeping business. how do you think they'll do if they enter the sunglasses business?

I think if you look at the market that oakley is aimed at then you will notice the pricing is very simular. All the clothes oakley sells, like 20-30 USD t-shirts, are right on que with the rest of the market. The o-store I work at is surrounded by A&F, American Eagle, Aeopostle, Gap, ect. and those are all stores were jeans are in the 60-80 range and shirts start around 25. Pricing for the market is fine, so maybe the market is just mis-adjusted but people pay it all the time and want the name and style so prices wont go down. Maybe people think the tech in the x-metals is not worth 300 USD but thats why the o-matters start at 70 (fives) and the wires start at 120 (plain warden).